's dealing with them every day. didn't know how to frame the attack, frame the defense and he didn't do that well in his first debate with john kerry. i think exactly the same thing here. with obama sitting in those meetings saying i know this stuff, i deal with it all the time, but he hadn't been forced in a debate setting to say these are the offensive argument, defensive arguments these are the three points i want to make and i think that was part of his problem. >> i think one of sort of malpractice moments, the most obvious was the two-minute closing statement. you're a speechwriter, you're a columnist now, you prepare presidents. how does he not have a narrative? we talk about narratives and it becomes slangy, but telling a story, with a start, middle and end and he had a two-minute closer that sounded as chris mathews said, memorably, sounded like a concession speech. you know, i'm not a perfect man, i've made mistakes, i'm sure mitt romney would say i've made mistakes how is that the opening line of your two-minute closer? >> yeah. >> that he carried into the closing statement.